11 Questions for Lloyd Kaufman

With 99 acting credits, 30 directing credits, 60 as a producer and 27 as a writer, Lloyd Kaufman is the indie maverick icon to thousands of wannabe filmmakers (and some high-profile successes like Peter Jackson and Quentin Tarantino too). The author of three books, he’s also given the world the only superhero it ever really needed: the Toxic Avenger, a soft-spoken geek transformed into an evil-stomping mutant by meathead bullies who threw him into a barrel of nuclear goo. Don’t let the sex, gore and violence fool you—the man is an artist and an intellectual, a graduate of Yale. Don’t let that cred fool you either, Lloyd is also, at least on this occasion, “Chace Ambrose’s prison bitch.” For this interview, these two loveable goofballs literally went for a stroll during Orlando’s Screamfest, Florida’s Largest Horror Convention. Only a guy who routinely dresses like a Ghostbuster and drives a hearse could’ve conducted an interview like this.

1.)    1.What happened to cause you to go from a “perfectly normal”, Yale-educated guy to the eccentric president of Troma Films?

When I started at Yale in 1910, the first World War had broken out and I wanted to change the world. It was the 60’s, a time when peace and “make the world a better place” was on everyone’s lips. And since I have lips like a woman, I thought I could, perhaps, teach folks with hooks for hands how to fingerpaint. But as fate would have it, I was put in a room with a roommate, oddly enough, and our room was very small. And at night, I’d breathe in his gutter-stinking feet—the aroma de troma—and that guy was head of the Yale Film Society. So I started drifting into Yale Film Society movies and kept getting knocked out by all these amazing, amazing movies. I did not even know what a film director was, Chace—I’d never even heard the term. I thought Charlie Chaplin was just a goofy clown; I didn’t realize he was a director. Then finally, I went to see a screening of Ernst Lubitsch’s To Be Or Not To Be with Robert Stack, Carole Lombard and the great Jack Benny. In the darkness of that auditorium, with about 200 other people in the audience, I made the decision right then and there to give to the public, to make movies. It was as easy as getting out of the easy chair and walking over to the refrigerator and pulling out a beer. It just was. Today, I’m living in a refrigerator so it all worked out great.

2.)    Incidentally, I did not write these questions. So… Do you find it odd that your filmography includes work on Rocky and My Dinner with Andre alongside Girl School Screamers and Smoke Pot Till You Fucking Die? How have you managed that diversity?

Well I bought into the auteur theory of filmmaking from the Cahiers du Cinema, which I read as a student at Yale. The Cinematheque Francais promoted this theory that the author of this film is what’s important, that the director should be in total control of the film. (Lloyd tells a fan to visit the Troma booth and then says, “You have a very nice smile on your face. Oh! And your friend does too—your wife? Yes, your wife is very, uh, very charming.”)
As a result of being interested and believing the film should be the product of the soul of the artist, I gravitate towards anyone who believes in what he or she is doing. So when I was young, I identified John G. Avildsen as a very talented director and I attached myself to him. I used him and some other directors like John Badham, who directed Saturday Night Fever, and that was my film school. (Lloyd and Chace discover a food cart outside of someone’s room and dine for a moment. “That’s how we live in Tromaville!”)So that’s my theory. I’ve been acting in young people’s movies—for free, of course—because if I’m in the film, it’ll sell a few more DVDs and Troma fans will buy it. Also, if I agree to be in someone’s movie then maybe it’ll give somebody who hasn’t made a film before a little more credibility. “Oh Lloyd’s doing it.” Then maybe another actor will do it.

(They reach Lloyd’s hotel room, and he promptly asks Chace to lay down on the bed. “I’m not gay but if you’ll just give me a little massage…”)

3.)    Where’d you find the inspiration for the Toxic Avenger?

Well, you should read my book, All I Need to Know About Filmmaking, I Learned From the Toxic Avenger, because it’s a memoir. It deals with a lot of these issues, a lot of these questions you’re asking. But I could write a book about how the Toxic Avenger was influenced—I literally could write a book. I’d have to say that Chaplin was a big influence—the blind woman was obviously a tip of the derby to Chaplin. Preston Sturges with his wonderful mugs—uh, character actors—in his movies. Frankenstein, probably my favorite monster movie—I always wanted Frankenstein to live; I felt so bad when the villagers were running after him and stuff.There’s just so much that got put into The Toxic Avenger, and of course, all the films I’ve produced and directed have all been political or sociologically-based. Squeeze Play was, of course, a women’s liberation theme about a gyno basebase team, not to be confused with the much inferior League of Their Own, directed by Penny Marshall fifteen years later. And Stuck on You dealt with the palimony, the big crisis in Philly. The Toxic Avenger was founded because my wife and I would go camping and see McDonald’s wrappers and all that kind of crap thrown in the woods. It just seemed interesting that at the same time as we were polluting the Earth we were getting very involved in health clubs and spas—the body beautiful and organic food. That was only 25 years ago and nobody really talked about the environment back then except for Rachel Carson who’d written The Silent Spring—it was on people’s radar but not seriously. We didn’t have biodegradable cups and that kind of stuff, recycling didn’t exist, and The Toxic Avenger grew out all those ideas. Someone could do a very interesting Ph.D monograph about The Toxic Avenger.

4.)    4.How do you deal with criticism that your films are gross, disgusting, sexist and shallow?

There has been no criticism along those lines. If I were to be criticized that way, I guess I’d react the same way—I mean, Steven Spielberg gets that same criticism all the time. You don’t make movies for critics. You make movies for yourself because you’re an artist and believe in what you’re doing. In the fullness of time you’ll be vindicated. To thine own self be true, that’s what the Bard said. That was a phrase coined by William Shakespeare who, as everybody knows, wrote that timeless best-selling book 101 Moneymaking Screenplay Ideas otherwise known as Hamlet.

5.)    What’s the difference between a B-movie and a Troma movie?

First of all, B-movies were the second-half of double bills. B-movie are no longer. There are no double features anymore. Technically, the term “B-movie” is an anachronism, like watching a movie about cavemen and one of them wears a watch—and George Bush does wear a watch. No, no, no, no, he’s the greatest president we’ve ever had. I love him. Better than Abraham Lincoln! What was the question again?Troma has basically prospered and thrived, although it has never been more difficult for independent filmmakers but Troma has created it’s own genre. People talk about “the Tromatic touch”, like “the Hitchcock touch”. It’s something we’ve created by mixing genres. James Gunn and I think Peter Jackson—or maybe he said Peter Jackson—said I’m the creator of slapstick gore. There’s a type of film that Troma does that is a sort of Cuisinart of the genres. Most people don’t do that.

(Lloyd stops to interview a fan, asking, “Why do you love Troma movies?” His answer: “They’re slapstick. They’re funny; they’re awesome. They’re really gory and they’re just cool.” The sex and violence doesn’t offend him either. The fan confesses to like “hot blind chicks who bang scary mutants.”)

6.)    I read somewhere that you like fat people more than thin people. Is that why you like Chace Ambrose?

Well, I like Chace Ambrose because he is a very attractive young male. Being a GMM, Chace is looking pretty good to me. But I like big, big, big people because fat plus fart equals funny. I don’t talk about rules but that’s one of the things we’ve learned in writing our scripts.

7.)    Of all the roles you’ve played and the films you’ve directed, produced or written, which would you never do again?

I don’t regret any of it. The only movie we wouldn’t get involved with again is Blood Sucking Freaks because it is so misogynistic but at the time, my partner Michael Herz and I didn’t really have the sensitivity to this issue. Today, I think women have gotten over the “Blood Sucking Freaks problem” but in its day, it really was the wrong movie at the wrong time. It is a funny movie and well-shot, but if it came around today, I don’t think I’d get involved.

Chace: Isn’t that the movie that you said you felt had secured your place in Hell?

Lloyd: Yes. We shouldn’t have promoted Blood Sucking Freaks.

8.)    Do you see your influence on a younger generation of filmmakers like Trey Parker, Matt Stone and James Gunn when their work hits the screen?

Takashi Miike in Japan, Alex de la Iglesia in Spain, Peter Jackson, Trey Parker, James Gunn, Eli Roth—they all love Troma, but I’m not the one who should comment on—whoa, we should get away from that bus because we might have our own head-crushing scene if we’re not careful—I shouldn’t be the one to comment. Obviously, if you look at “South Park” there’s a lot of slapstick gore. Trey and Matt used to have Toxic Avenger parties when they went to college.

9.)    You’re also an author. How different is that process for you than making movies, and what motivated you to get into it?

I never thought about writing a book but my literary agent, Jerome Rudes, thought that my life was so interesting that I should write a book. I told him to find a publisher and I would so he found Putnam and I got a nice big advance. And I was lucky enough to have James Gunn working with me as my assistant and he’s pretty much responsible for the book. He got his master’s degree in English, in writing. In fact, he was going to be a novelist. He didn’t even think about movies until I snagged him as my personal assistant. The book is pretty much his work. And the next book, Make Your Own Damn Movie—I do actually write these books, but I had help from Adam Jahnke and Trent Haaga. Without those guys and their discipline, it never would’ve gotten done.

10.)                        You’ve worked in some capacity or another with Kevin Costner, Robert DeNiro, Dustin Hoffman, Samuel L. Jackson and the guy that played Dwayne-Dwayne on a Different World, doesn’t that make you better than regular people?

The good news is that I haven’t worked with these guys, but Troma has been the finance to some of these movies. In other words, we’re responsible for Samuel L. Jackson’s first movie—we put a lot of money into Def By Temptation. Michael Herz and I were the only white guys involved in it. I think it’s a pity that Samuel L. Jackson isn’t a little more helpful to Troma. Vincent D’Onofrio’s first movie, The First Turn-On, Michael Herz and I directed, and he’s a great guy. Some of these guys—certainly Trey Parker and Matt Stone—are very helpful to us. You walk around Screamfest, or you go to the American Film Market or the Cannes Film Market, it seems that at one point or another that half the people there worked for Troma over its 35 years. Troma has been a huge breeding ground for today’s mainstream film industry.

11.)                        When is the world going to recognize your genius?

Well, many artists are not appreciated until they’re dead, and my guess is when I’m dead—and if I have a horrible, grizzly death, like if I blow my brains out—then people will appreciate my work. The problem is too many people in the world of art, they are knee-jerkers and they don’t really have an opinion and they haven’t really seen the Troma films. Troma doesn’t do any advertising. I don’t have a marketing budget, so there is a big fan base all over the world—there are millions of people who appreciate Troma. If more people knew about Troma, they’d appreciate it, but word of mouth has always been really good. There are people writing books about Shakespeare who are including chapters on Tromeo and Juliet—it just takes time when you don’t have money for advertising. And of course, we have all these disciples of Troma who are out there making movies that aren’t as extreme as mine, like James Gunn and Trey Parker and Matt Stone, and they’re always talking about it. Eli Roth is always talking about Toxie and Mother’s Day—he loves Mother’s Day.

12.)                        What does the soul of Troma look like?

It is a soul that puts above everything else our wives, families, friendship and the love of truly independent art. Art that comes not from the selling of hamburgers or video games, but art that comes from the depth of the artist.

13.)                        What’s your most recent film?

Poutrygeist: Night of the Chicken Dead is, like all Troma movies, a political-sociological statement. It’s about a fast-food chicken establishment built on ancient, sacred Indian burial grounds. Indians were horribly exterminated and millions of chickens are tortured and exterminated every year. The spirits of those exterminated souls go into the chicken establishment to seek revenge on the employees as chicken/Indian zombies. There’s also some singing and dancing. It’s not a musical but it has some random songs. After seeing Takashi Miike’s The Happiness of the Katakuris, he gave me the courage to throw in some random songs and dances. It’s really about the ills about the corporate culture and the phony limousine liberals.

How could we get Poultrygeist shown in Macon?

It’s opening in San Francisco, Austin, Houston, New York, Minneapolis—it’s pretty much opening everywhere, but it’s been the fans who’ve gone into the movie theatres and asked to have it played there. The theatre goes to Lloyd@Troma.com or they can go to the website, or call Troma in New York at 212-757-4555 extension 30 and ask for the movie. If we call up the movie theatres, they don’t call us back so it’s really the fans.